Jon Garland vs. Dontrelle Willis

[boo_427]

Just wanted to compare the two hottest pitchers in each major leagues. I know there has been some discussions on Dontrelle, but Garland cannot be overlooked.

So far:

Garland

YEAR	G	GS	CG	IP	H	R	HR	BB	SO	K/9	W	L	Sv	P/GS	WHIP	BAA	ERA
2005	7	7	2	52.2	42	14	3	8	23	3.93	7	0	0	100.0	0.95	.221	2.39

Willis

YEAR	G	GS	CG	IP	H	R	HR	BB	SO	K/9	W	L	Sv	P/GS	WHIP	BAA	ERA
2005	7	7	3	50.0	34	7	2	10	40	7.20	7	0	0	97.4	0.88	.193	1.08

All I can say is Wow. Both these guys are off to great starts. And definitely are holding the early leads for Cy Young Awards in there respective leagues.

I know it is only week 6. And much, has already been discussed about D-Train. What are your thoughs on Garland? Who would you rather have down the stretch? Who do you want right now?

I think I would take D-Train right now and Garland down the stretch.

[RhodeyYankee2638]

How dominant is D-Train. He averages 4 more K's a game than Garland, and he does it with less pitches. D-Train is absolutly on right now

[boo_427]

Originally Posted by RhodeyYankee2638

How dominant is D-Train. He averages 4 more K's a game than Garland, and he does it with less pitches. D-Train is absolutly on right now

My lone argument was going to be that Garland is more of a workhorse. Over his career he averaging something 220+ innings pitched.

[IntangiblesRule]

Garland can pitch. He struck out Tejada on a 3-2 CHANGE UP last night to get out of a jam late in the game.

I think he's putting it together now and is going to develop into a top pitcher. I like Garland.

[RhodyYanksFan]

Originally Posted by boo_427

My lone argument was going to be that Garland is more of a workhorse. Over his career he averaging something 220+ innings pitched.

Actually he's never pitched 220. Last year was his highest at 217. He also has a career ERA of 4.54 (including this season). I think they're both over-achiveing and will slow down in the 2nd half. Remember, Dontrelle wasn't even starting in the playoffs of 03 for Florida because he was garbage down the stretch.

[WiffleWOOD]

Garland's low K-rates are going to kill him. he's going to come down to earth soon.

[boo_427]

Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan

Actually he's never pitched 220. Last year was his highest at 217. He also has a career ERA of 4.54 (including this season). I think they're both over-achiveing and will slow down in the 2nd half. Remember, Dontrelle wasn't even starting in the playoffs of 03 for Florida because he was garbage down the stretch.

Oops, I confused him with Buehrle.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...ntext=pitching


Garland is still averaging 200 IP over the last three years though..
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...ntext=pitching

If they get it to 10-0, then more people will take notice.

[chanman7483]

Originally Posted by WiffleWOOD

Garland's low K-rates are going to kill him. he's going to come down to earth soon.

What about guys like Maddux and Glavine, just to name a few? I think if he mixes his pitches up and locates, he should be fine, regardless of the low K rate.

[Snatch Catch]

Originally Posted by chanman7483

What about guys like Maddux and Glavine, just to name a few? I think if he mixes his pitches up and locates, he should be fine, regardless of the low K rate.

Wait, do you mean the two guys who have 6 Cy Youngs between them?

Lets not get carried away with comparisons here...

[WiffleWOOD]

Originally Posted by chanman7483

What about guys like Maddux and Glavine, just to name a few? I think if he mixes his pitches up and locates, he should be fine, regardless of the low K rate.

i hope this is the last time i ever see Jon Garland's name in the same thread as Greg maddux.

Maddux always had a K-rate in the 5's and 6's. he also had a ridiculous K:BB ratio and low BB rates his whole career.

Jon Garland's K-rate has always been in the low 5's to mid 4's. he is now just under 4. Maddux has consistently struck out more guys.

more imporantly, Garland's career K:BB is 1.37. Maddux's is 3.35. THAT is the reason why Maddux can get away with average K-rates while Garland will suffer with his well-below-average K-rates.

[Grape Ape]

Originally Posted by WiffleWOOD

Garland's low K-rates are going to kill him. he's going to come down to earth soon.

He's a fantasy league force right now for anyone smart enough to have grabbed him.

[38Special]

Reading more into Garland's starts..bolded are teams with winning records

MIN (20-13) - 6.0 IP - 10 H - 3 R - 0 BB - 1 SO
SEA (13-21) - 7.0 IP - 2 H - 2 R - 2 BB - 3 SO
DET (16-17) - 8.0 IP - 5 H - 1 R - 2 BB - 4 SO
OAK (14-20) - 9.0 IP - 4 H - 0 R - 1 BB - 3 SO
DET (16-17) - 9.0 IP - 4 H - 0 R - 1 BB - 6 SO
TOR (19-16) - 5.2 IP - 9 H - 6 R - 1 BB - 2 SO
BAL (22-12) - 8.0 IP - 8 H - 2 R - 1 BB - 4 SO

Also Baltimore was absolutely ridiculous when it came to working the counts last night. I haven't watched enough of them this season to see if this has been their MO, but they were swinging at more garbage and first/second pitches than Derek Jeter!

[LuckyLopez]

Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan

I think they're both over-achiveing and will slow down in the 2nd half. Remember, Dontrelle wasn't even starting in the playoffs of 03 for Florida because he was garbage down the stretch.

To be fair he was lousy in August, great in September, and then crap in the playoffs. It wasn't quite as simple as him dropping off the map at the end of the season. He recovered from his fall and then just couldn't do it in the playoffs (which is probably a forgivable sin for a rookie).

Not to say that I don't agree that Willis will slow down. I mean, he has to. 7-0, 1.08, 0.88 can't continue.

[boo_427]

Originally Posted by 38Special

Reading more into Garland's starts..bolded are teams with winning records

MIN (20-13) - 6.0 IP - 10 H - 3 R - 0 BB - 1 SO
SEA (13-21) - 7.0 IP - 2 H - 2 R - 2 BB - 3 SO
DET (16-17) - 8.0 IP - 5 H - 1 R - 2 BB - 4 SO
OAK (14-20) - 9.0 IP - 4 H - 0 R - 1 BB - 3 SO
DET (16-17) - 9.0 IP - 4 H - 0 R - 1 BB - 6 SO
TOR (19-16) - 5.2 IP - 9 H - 6 R - 1 BB - 2 SO
BAL (22-12) - 8.0 IP - 8 H - 2 R - 1 BB - 4 SO

Also Baltimore was absolutely ridiculous when it came to working the counts last night. I haven't watched enough of them this season to see if this has been their MO, but they were swinging at more garbage and first/second pitches than Derek Jeter!

I think the same argument can be made for D-Train per Vito's post in Dontrelle's thread...

Originally Posted by bakntime

He's looked amazing so far... but don't give him the Cy just yet.

He's looked this good before.

Starting against the flailing Astros offense last night doesn't hurt either... and after losing Bagwell on top of an already weak lineup. I felt he was easily outpitched by Oswalt, but the Marlins (who had just 5 hits) got the W thanks to Damion Easley's (ouch) 2 run HR for Florida's only runs.

Here are Dontrelle's opponents so far (NL Rank in runs scored):

Washington (11)
Philadelphia (14)
Washington (11)
Cincinnati (9)
Philadelphia (14)
Colorado (12)
Houston (16)

Not exactly your toughest offenses there. Not to take anything away from him, but he might have the easiest schedule for an NL pitcher thus far this season.

[Circle Change]

They're both going to come back down to earth.

[PinstripePride]

I think Brett Myers needs to be in this discussion.

[Elevation]

James baldwin went 8-0 one year.

Somebody like Garland has a year like this every season. The Yankees will probably trade for him next July.

[MisterNovember]

Originally Posted by WiffleWOOD

Garland's low K-rates are going to kill him. he's going to come down to earth soon.

To be fair, the reason Garland has been successful this year is that he's STOPPED trying to strike everyone out. In the past, he'd always tried for the strikeout, and wound up with a lot of mistake pitches. That's why he gave up an Eric Milton-esque 34 HRs last season. So far this year he's only given up 3.

I don't understand why people are so quick to write Garland off. He's only 25, has great stuff, is a former #1 draft pick, and seems to have finally figured out how to pitch. Obviously he won't keep up his current pace, but I don't see why he can't turn into a very good major league pitcher.

[Snatch Catch]

Originally Posted by PinstripePride

I think Brett Myers needs to be in this discussion.

This is a discussion about 2 guys who are 7-0.

Bump the thread about the top 20 yound pitchers in baseball (where we were already discussing Myers briefly).

[Bosox Guy in Chitown]

Jon Garland, despite his start, is mediocre.

Buehrle (sp?) is the pitcher I'd take from the ChiSox.